Monday, January 23, 2012

Thought to ponder...

From this week's NYker: there are more Americans in jail now than Stalin ever held in a gulag, more black men in jail than were slaves in 1850.
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21 comments:

Cham said...

January 31st a book is going to be released Coming Apart:The State of White America.

What is unique about Baltimore is that it contains plenty of Tonyville whites and not so many Fishtown whites. I'm sure the book is going to get a lot of press. I'm interested to see the media's response. I think the author has noticed a game changing phenomenon.

The machinations that put all those black men behind bars are now going to be working just as well to put just as many Fishtown whites in the same place. It's inevitable, the judicial playing field gets more level everyday. The judicial process was at one point racist, but those that created it now have to watch it work against their own race and there is nothing they can do about it.

Mon Jan 23, 03:19:00 PM EST
Maurice Bradbury said...

Not so many Fishtown whites? You must not hang out in Hampden, Glen Burnie, Arbutus... anyway the process isn't racist, people are. And for-profit prisons lobbying to increase their "client base" is a load of crap.

Mon Jan 23, 03:31:00 PM EST
ppatin said...

Crime rates are at their lowest levels in decades so there is at least an argument to be made that our high rate of incarceration is actually working.

Before everyone jumps all over me for saying that I agree that our current situation is at best horrendously inefficient. It would be nice if we had a more rational drug policy. Legalizing everything probably isn't the greatest idea, but what we're doing now clearly isn't working.

Even more controversially I think our society needs to place a far greater stigma on teenage pregnancy. It's not PC to say this but when you have 15-year olds getting knocked up you might as well just reserve a prison cell for any male kids they have at birth since someone born into that kind of a situation is doomed to failure. Having a child when you're in high school should be viewed as shameful and embarrassing.

Tue Jan 24, 08:12:00 AM EST
ppatin said...

Edit: Before anyone accuses me of sexism I also think that men who have children with three or more women should be ostracized.

Tue Jan 24, 08:14:00 AM EST
Cham said...

The teen pregnancy rate is at the lowest its been in decades. Incarcerating nonviolent offenders is the creation point for future violent offenders. The prison system is feeding on itself.

The US incarceration policy has its roots in racism. As I mentioned in the first post, those incarceration policies are about to snap up the same race that set them in motion. According to Harvard's 2005 comorbibity study, young whites are more likely to abuse drugs, alcohol and cigarettes than any other race. The homicides are on the increase in AAC, Baltimore County and Harford County.

As drug use decreases in blacks and increases in white it will be interesting as to which direction the judicial system will take, as the white race splits itself into 2 camps.

This should be entertaining to watch if nothing else.

Tue Jan 24, 08:38:00 AM EST
ppatin said...

It may be at its lowest rate in decades but it's also many times higher than anywhere else in the civilized world.

Tue Jan 24, 08:48:00 AM EST
Cham said...

Which is why Baltimore City is now very discreetly offering birth control for free. Sex is a biological function, and shaming isn't going to make most teens not do it. They will always find a way to bump the uglies, especially with all the sexual based TV shows and advertising. Nobody will be able to make teen sex go away.

Tue Jan 24, 08:58:00 AM EST
ppatin said...

Cham:

I'm not talking about talking about stigmatizing sex. Thankfully we live in an age when sex doesn't have to lead to pregnancy. Practically every nation in Western Europe has more liberal/permissive views about teen sex than the US does yet their teenage pregnancy rates are a fraction of ours.

Tue Jan 24, 09:22:00 AM EST
Cham said...

If you shame kids who get pregnant in high school then that is going to lead to either a rash of abortions or parents pulling their kids out of school. Is what we want, a bunch of teen parents without high school diplomas? Abortions are about to get a whole lot more expensive too, now they have to be performed in surgical centers(if that law hasn't been passed yet).

The most cost effective solution is offering them all free IUDs and condoms. But that religious right will never go for it. So we're stuck with the teen parents.

The US gets such a kick out of making people feel bad about sex and giving them a complex. No wonder nobody wants to get married.

Tue Jan 24, 09:46:00 AM EST
ppatin said...

"If you shame kids who get pregnant in high school then that is going to lead to either a rash of abortions"

That's fine with me, although I'd prefer it if they didn't get preggers in the first place.

Absolutely agree about free birth control for all, but I think it's pretty questionable how many teen pregnancies are caused by difficulty in getting contraception.

Tue Jan 24, 11:19:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...

Pay them cash to be sterilized.
Done.

As for more black males incarcerated than in 1850 slavery,.... yeah, massive overpopulation. (see above)


You know, if you made life in prison substantially less enjoyable, maybe those guys would decide not to ,.. uh,... violate the criminal code.


- Galt

Tue Jan 24, 11:31:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...

Key facts to be aware of:

1) The black population in the U.S. of 1850 (which was about 89% enslaved) has increased by 1200% since then.

2) The incarceration rate for blacks is about 12%, or 1 in 8, nationally.

3) The disproportionality of black incarceration to black residential population is actually lower in Maryland than in the U.S. generally.

It is therefore not that surprising that incarcerated blacks are quite numerous. Unincarcerated blacks are also much more numerous.

More generally, you need to keep historical perspective in mind when you discuss populations from the past.

fact: The current populations of Florida + Alabama is about the 1850 population of the entire U.S.

fact: Texas, which was admitted in 1845 (same year as Florida), now has a population greater than that of the entire U.S. circa 1850.

fact: Our current population of illegals is about half the size of the entire U.S. population circa 1850.


- Galt

Tue Jan 24, 12:20:00 PM EST
Maurice Bradbury said...

You're right about population growth, Galt, but it's still shocking I think! And I agree pp-- that Wally Jay talks about cultural divides but I think the biggest is between groups of people who think teenage motherhood is shameful, and groups who think it's just one of those things (see Palin, Bristol). Another cultural divide-- people who glorify violence and those who don't. When I moved into Hampden, the first conversation I had with my new neighbor was him bragging about all the ass-kicking fights he'd gotten into and his skills in the ass-kicking arts. Whereas if I went around getting into physical fights my peer group would think I was insane.

Tue Jan 24, 12:56:00 PM EST
Maurice Bradbury said...

And yes, it's the drug laws, stupid. In 1840 Quakers pushed for the prisons as a humane alternative to, like, dunking stools hanging people for sealing a horse. There was no such thing as a controlled substance then-- I think that was even pre-morphine cough syrup. If they'd known what prisons would become, they would probably stuck with the dunking stools.

Tue Jan 24, 01:06:00 PM EST
Cham said...

I had to do some shopping today. First stop was Lexington Market, in there a copper thought I might appreciate some oversight since, you know, white lady in the big bad market. Told him I was just fine on my own thank you very much. Told me my eyes were beautiful. Outside, Newports with tophats, selling for $5. People yelling both "grass" and "weed", are these the same? Didn't inquire. There must be a glut on the market. salespeople aggressive.

Then down to harbor promenade to pick up bike. White guy, wearing capri-length jeans, neck tats, bright yellow sneakers, telling girlfriend that he don't take no shit, when someone talks smack to him he steps up and don't back down. FUCK YA, fuck ya mother fucker. I'd rather smoke the weed than deal with this guy.

On another note it was Bayer pharmaceutical that is given credit for popularizing legal heroin. 40 year old housewives couldn't get enough.

Tue Jan 24, 05:53:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...

Bring back the pillory!

Now, also, you need to know that while a big chunk of the prison population from Baltimore City got there via conviction on controlled substance laws, most of them are in fact guilty of rather more than that.

So, let's not imagine that we've incarcerated a bunch of choirboys who accidentally got caught with simple possession of a joint in their pocket.

If, in fact, you legalized pot, these guys would mostly still be breaking (other) laws and going to jail.

And them Cham would be extolling the virtues of their nonviolence and seeking their release, right?

Tue Jan 24, 07:32:00 PM EST
ppatin said...

Anon 07:32:00 PM: I agree that it's naive to believe that we can legalize drugs and all the problems associated with them will go away. Still, we've tried the prohibition approach for decade and it's been a resounding failure.

At the very least we should legalize & tax marijuana (a drug which by any objective standard is less harmful than alcohol) and devote the resources which are used against it toward more destructive drugs like heroin and crack. IMO there are other things we could do about "harder" drugs that would do a better job of mitigating the harm they cause without outright legalizing their sale. I don't have the energy to go into detail but I suggest reading about Switzerland's experiment with heroin.

Tue Jan 24, 07:43:00 PM EST
Maurice Bradbury said...

Portugal is doing the harm-reduction thing too, excellent article in the NYker awhile back. Bottom line, not sunshine and roses, but still sounds a touch better than paying $35-40k a year to warehouse people. And raises the moral issue, should people be in prison for victimless crimes? Sure, if you're a crackhead or hardcore addict chances are someone is going to be victimized sometime, but should the government be in the business of putting people in jail because of things they might do, or per anon's example, things they probably did but can't be proved? Probably some people in jail for possession are, in fact, guilty of worse, but then again, probably some of them aren't. Probably should get someone arrested, maybe indicted, but shouldn't be enough to send someone to jail for decades and ruin all hopes of a productive life after.

Tue Jan 24, 08:30:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...

Your solution exhibits a problem:

If you just legalize the pot, usage will go up and demand for harder things will fall for the casual user.

Stone-cold hair-oin addicts will change nothing.

If, however, you tax pot to the hilt, you should expect its users to switch to the illicit drugs, which we do not want.

No, a fiscal fix will induce a heroin fix, so just leave the taxes out of it. If you want to raise revenue, tax the thing you object to,... criminals.

Saddle every parolee with a $5,000 bill for TLC and give it the status of a judicial fine, ie. jail time if you don't make your payments.

That creates an incentive to get a job,.... quick.

Tue Jan 24, 08:30:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...

MJ the issue with 'probably' is that the Baltimore City police (and the SA) let most of the offenses in this town go under the radar.

That because of the sheer volume of offenses committed by this highly criminal population and the paucity of law-abiding citizens available to report on them.

In a better place with fewer criminals per capita, a burglary gets a great deal of attention and probable becomes probable cause. Conjecture becomes conviction.

Here, most crimes won't even be written up.

There is absolutely no way to have a decent city with a very high criminality per capita. We are far past the Tipping Point.

A simple solution is to forbid parolees/probationers to be in highly criminal places, on pain of immediate VOP. Then hand them a map of Baltimore indicating that they are exiled from virtually every neighborhood but Guilford, Homeland, Roland Park and that they are additionally banned from Rosedale, Essex, Dundalk on the basis of high offender concentration.

It is not possible to avoid 'associating with known criminals' and still be in most parts of this town.

My version of running them out of town on a rail.

Answer: you got to go!


- Galt

Tue Jan 24, 08:43:00 PM EST
Maurice Bradbury said...

interesting from the article: crime is down because of actively policing "hot spots" instead of police waiting to get a call that a crime is underway. That seems so obvious I have a hard time believing that no one's tried it before.

Wed Jan 25, 03:03:00 PM EST

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